In all fairness ...

[Frustrated Father]

Hello folks,

I was hoping that this would be something that could be avoided with the competiion but sadly some folks seem to think that the rules don't apply to everyone, even though I've tried to make a point of pointing them out quite often.

Entries are supposed to remain anonymous. No links, no discussions and no naming of the entries that you have painted and entered into the contest. I generally troll the forums and websites looking for information on the contests and to follow threads and being nosey. I also have the ability to track direct links to the website from other sources as well as IP's, which is how I find a lot of information being posted about Wyrd.

There has also been discussion about creating dummy accounts to pad votes for the contest, and sadly, I'm finding that to be a reality as folks create an account, go directly to vote and log off. I can track these things, as well as IP's, and over the next few days, as I have time to go through descrepencies, individuals will be notified and IP's will be banned. I understand that some folks will have spouses that join in the fun, and for the most part, I know quite a few of you, so don't worry about your IP's being banned in that fashion. If you have dual accounts, simply logged on and voted in the course of a couple of minutes and then called it good, then you can expect your account to be terminated.

The rules are fairly simple, and overall folks only have to keep their enthusiasm for a little over a week during the voting before everyone will be get their proper recognition and you can discuss the entries openly.

Several entries were removed before the voting due to breaking the rules. One entry has just been removed. Another two will be removed here shortly and hopefully that will be the last of it, though it has created a bit of work for the Wyrd moderators and myself. My apologies to anyone who has been affected by this, either with entries or with lost votes.

Lets keep it fun.

-
Nathan Caroland
Wyrd Miniatures

[gi6ers]

I'm astounded, and more than a little pissed off. It's a contest to get some honest feedback and perhaps win some lead. If you self esteem is so low you have to vote for yourself through a dummy account then you need help.

@Nathan are you going to name and shame? I hope you do.


:vb_mad2:

[Frustrated Father]

For those that have been removed from the contest, at this point it really comes off as honest mistakes or not thinking of the rules as we're used to sharing here at Wyrd. No sense in shaming anyone in this department.

Now when it comes down to making multiple accounts to pad voting, that I do get a bit fired up about. Hopefully its not too many accounts, I expect its rather low, though there have been a couple.

-
Nathan

[KitKat]

I knew that a friend of mine was entering this contest with a mini that she uses in our D&D game, so when I saw that the entries were up, I enthusiastically posted a link to it in my LiveJournal account, not thinking that I was doing anything wrong whatsoever. About an hour later, she let me know that that was against the rules, so I edited my journal to remove the link to her mini, within 2 hours of having put it up, and just had a link to the contest itself.

People made jokes in my journal about voting early and often, a "Chicago Tradition", as well. I doubt anyone did it, it doesn't tend to be the type of company I keep. But, Nathan found my journal and has removed my friend's miniature from the contest.

I respect rules and always have every intention of following them, but I'm miserable at the fact that my enthusiasm and oversight has cost my friend the opportunity to both participate in a contest she had the talent and ability to win, and to get the further exposure for her excellent work that she so richly deserves.

I guess I'm writing this mostly as an open apology to her, and a request that if you see a mini gone from the contest, don't assume that the painter had any intention of breaking, or even did break him/herself, the contest rules.

-Kat

[gi6ers]

don't assume that the painter had any intention of breaking, or even did break him/herself, the contest rules.

-Kat

Personally it's the dummy accounts that are pissing me off. In your case it was a mistake AND you had the balls to post the above. :thumb:

[Frustrated Father]

As gi6ers said and I agree with it.

In general, the only thing that has me hot right now is vote irregularities that folks have tried to get around by creating dummy accounts. I can follow just about anything on this site with just a bit of work and looking.

That might not mean that I'll catch everything, and some folks might very well get away with something without me ever knowing it (believe me, I only 'look' when I have to, I don't spend endless hours pouring over what everyone is doing on the Wyrd site, its pointless and really, I'm not that pathetic). In this case, it is something that I will have to take a firm hand in, and yes, it is likely going to take hours for me to go through and double check everything, which frankly I'm sure my wife and kids are just going to love.

KitKat, we've talked privately, and now publically and as I've said to everyone, there are really no hard feelings here, atleast on my end and I hope that this doesn't discourage anyone from participating in the voting, commenting or future contests, but I am trying to follow the rules here and believe me, I'm wishy-washy compared to my little moderator that sits on my shoulder and makes certain I keep the straight and narrow. :)

The entries that were pulled today were of no fault to the one painter, and the other I believe just had a lapse of memory about the rules and let slip two entries out of several. The others are still in the contest and happily accepted and welcomed.

Entries pulled before the galleries were posted or the voting begun were due to not following the rules, having been posted elsewhere on the internet, entered in other contests and thus disqualified for being posted as well as named and a few other bits that I and the moderators have had to keep up.

The contest is meant to be fun, lets keep it like that, and again, my apologies if anyone has been slighted, offended or upset. I'm sure as the contest grows, folks will readily remember the rules and the good fun it is meant to be.

-
Nathan

[Frustrated Father]

Private conversations have popped up about this behind the scenes, PM's and e-mails and I figured I would go ahead and make a clarification here.

The miniature community really is a rather small group overall when you get right down to it. It doesn't take long for someones painting style or ability to become recognized rather easily by folks that follow painting and miniatures in general.

Now in all honesty, I can point out, rather easily, folks like EricJ, Ritual, Fluffy or even some less 'famous' ones such as Lonewolf or WiccanPony. They have a certain style to their painting and for someone who knows what to look for, you can probably point out their entries in a contest, magazine or anything else rather quickly.

So what does that mean when someone starts 'blabbin' on the internet about how this has to be XXX's miniature, look at this one, thats a classic XXX style of painting, blah blah. Yeah, that's going to happen, and quite frankly, its going to be discussed on other sites and forums which is all well and good. As long as the person who painted the miniature does not acknowledge, in any way, shape or form, then I will leave the entry alone. I would hope though that folks could simply wait the week of voting and enjoy it for what it is.

In the above situation, the painter did the right thing and said something and had the link removed and then the conversation continued from there. Granted, it really is NOT her fault, but to avoid this, it would have been best to just send a private message and have it removed completely. Acknowledging it publically was the problem in this situation.

Is this perfect, no it isn't. Will some folks vote the contest as a popularity contest, or as some have snidely said 'just like the CMON clique' (I don't feel this way, but it has been stated multiple times now), yeah, they likely will. Being that this is a public vote system for the contest it is likely going to happen, though I would hope that a lot of folks will vote fairly, or at the very least, the few that vote for their friends will be balanced out.

The only real way to get rid of this is for me to make it a closed panel of judges to do all the voting which, really is against the spirit of the Wyrd Painting Contests. This is meant to be fun, open to the public and we've found that the comments are well appreciated by those receiving them.

As with all things, there will have to be changes and 'upgrades' and once the contest is completed, as with every contest, I'll make a thread here in the forums asking for advice, critique and comments on what worked, what didn't and what we might do in order to make this a more fair and enjoyable contest.

Take a deep breath - and enjoy.

[dragonbane]

People made jokes in my journal about voting early and often, a "Chicago Tradition", as well. I doubt anyone did it, it doesn't tend to be the type of company I keep. But, Nathan found my journal and has removed my friend's miniature from the contest.


And I was the one who made the Chicago Voting jokes. I didn't pause to think that people who were NOT from Chicago might not be aware of Chicago's gangster history (it IS one of the 3 largest cities in the country, but stranger things have happened). That's one of the bad things about the net, sometimes people just don't understand what you have to say when there are no facial cues to indicate laughter I guess.

I will note for the record that neither I nor most of my friends were familiar with Wyrd before this contest (my account was created on the second day of voting, for instance), so please don't assume that because Kat and I and our LJ friends and our IMMPS friends came and visited and voted that any of us are "dummy accounts." I did a lot of advertising for the contest once the galleries hit, I'd hate the new people I brought this way to be removed as casually as you removed the mini I was joking about in the first place.

:imsorry:

Actually, I take that back.. you can assume that Dragonbane is a dummy account, because clearly I *was* a bit of a dummy in my choice of commentary on KitKat's journal.

[Frustrated Father]

Before the uproar occurs, the dummy accounts that have been found there three that were created in a total of two minutes, all three from the same IP, all three that voted for the same miniatures (and only those two miniatures, not using the third vote as given) in the course of about ten minutes time frame.

'That' is a dummy account, not hearing about the contest from friends and creating accounts and voting as everyone is more than welcome to.

[Duende]

That is pretty stupid and immature. Do these people think their lives are going to be so much improved if they can artifically boost their mini(s) of choice up enough to win? Their lives are pretty sad in that case. Idiots.

Sorry, I didn't enter this time, FF. I did start one but then I got hit with a serious case of painter's block (which still hasn't abated). Kinda sucks considering all the loot/booty that is up for grabs. Hopefully I'll get one in next time!

Also, I like that we can vote for three this time around. With so many good entries, it's too hard to pick just one! Too bad the Fantasy couldn't be broken down into smaller categories, it's always so HUGE! Maybe sub-categories by weapon type? Like Choppers (axes), Pokers (swords, daggers), Bashers (staff, mace, club), and Killer Looks (unarmed)? Just a thought....

Of course, I'll be waiting until the last minute to vote. Must weigh all my options carefully.....

:1: :2: :3:

[EricJ]

I pretty much have respect for all parties mentioned in this thread (yes and even Nathan), everyone seems to have done the right thing despite the small mistake, of course other than the person who made the 3 dummy accounts, who just sucks. I certainly hope that our friends from Chicago aren't discouraged and stick around the forums and we see them in the next contest!!

[LeadAsbestos]

I must agree that cheating in a mini-painting contest is just about the most pathetic thing I can imagine. Kinda sad really, if that is the only way to get some sort of validation in one's life...

Assholes! :thumb:

[Frustrated Father]

@ Duende
I was wondering where you got off to, you've been a regular in the contests and I was a bit surprised not to see one from you. That's alright though, I managed to not finish one up for this one either, despite working my darndest to try. Always next time.

As for the three votes, some folks are really diggin' it, others aren't and I'm guessing this is going to be one of those situations where we can't please everyone. We'll see what folks have to say after the contest though and try and get some general feedback on what worked, what didn't and what might.

@ Eric

Well said, we'll just have to see for the next one now won't we.

@ whomever

We'll keep going through looking for dummy accounts, but in general I think this is a minor occurance and I don't expect that it will become an issue unless someone just really wants to push some buttons. No worries, and no need to holler names at them, lets keep it friendly.

No entry, vote or comment is ever deleted without debate or moderation behind the scenes. I have moderators and frankly, I depend on them to catch this sort of thing, help out with the site, and in the end, we discuss everything before acting. In the end I take the final responsibility for any decision as Wyrd is 'mine', but nothing is ever done just off the cuff.

Also, whether it is none or not for when folks join the site, vote, go through the motions of the contest, the rules ARE posted and I've tried to make them as blantantly obvious on the site without sticking it on the front page, flashing and there to annoy everyone every single moment. In the end it comes down to reading the rules and abiding by them. We're not perfect, but we're working on it.

:)

Lets go ahead and call this discussion a close as frankly, the matter has been resolved, whether to everyones liking or not, and there isn't much more to say here except frothing up the pot so to speak and stepping on toes.