Brookhurst Hobbies is dumping Rackham!!

[Malebolgia]

50% - 75% Off Sale

http://www.brookhursthobbies.com/RACKHAM/New%20Pages/Main_Page.htm

Thought that might interest some of you :)

[Ritual]

I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of that... :rolleyes:

[Sculpta the squig]

Dammit, so little money. But 'Meh' the good stuff has already sold

Squig

[Hinton]

I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of that... :rolleyes:

Why do you say that? Is there a problem with the Rackham stuff or is there a problem with the retailers?

[Lordfishbane]

Why do you say that? Is there a problem with the Rackham stuff or is there a problem with the retailers?

Alot of distributors/retailers will probably dump thier metal stock, in anticipation of the new plastics.

[Ritual]

Well, Rackham has basically said "fuck off" to their current customer base and aim for the pre-paint market. This, I think, will make some of their current distributors to reconsider carrying them, since they can't count on the existing customer base still being interested. And, in any case, the metal minis are being phased out... so they will want to get rid of the current stock while there is still interest in them.

[goblyn13]

Also Alliance is no longer distributing Rackham. Its all going to be distributed by Fantasy Flight Games.

[Jester]

Yes and to directly quote one of their booth workers at GenCon "see, with just a quick shot of primer you can paint over the prepainted pieces without any problems at all... They're not the gloopy paintjobs you see on other prepainted figures."

Ok, like I WANT to paint over prepainted plastics... (heavy on the sarcasm here folks)

[Hinton]

Well, Rackham has basically said "fuck off" to their current customer base and aim for the pre-paint market. This, I think, will make some of their current distributors to reconsider carrying them, since they can't count on the existing customer base still being interested. And, in any case, the metal minis are being phased out... so they will want to get rid of the current stock while there is still interest in them.

That sucks. I kind of like some of the minis they put out.

[Ritual]

The biggest problem with the pre-painted plastic minis, as I see it, is that they are generally not as good sculpts as the metal ones. They are simpler and frankly not as interesting (based on what I have seen so far). There are very few of the AT-43 minis that I feel any interest in getting and the plastic Confrontation minis I've seen so far are pretty lack-luster and miles from the high quality their metal minis are known for.

[supervike]

I really like the AT-43 stuff...sorry to say. The game seems nice and fun, and the stuff is cool looking. There may be something to be said for prepainted plastics. BUT...why do they have to charge so much for them? Thats the part that really chaps my hide.

[supervike]

Hmmm....looking at some of the prices on the AT-43 stuff, I'd have to say Brookhurst is stretching the truth a bit.

It says 50-75% off, yet they are not marked down accordingly.

The set I am looking at retails for 20.00, but they are selling it for 15. I ain't no rocket scientist, but that looks like a 25% discount.

[Xenon_Wulf]

You know, despite what everyone here is saying about pre-painted plastic, I've heard a lot of random con-goers at Gencon say that they didn't care for painting minis.

That and Rackham was actually raking in the money with the AT-43 stuff they had on sale.

The paint jobs are actually good for pre-paints, when compared to the competition, and while the sculpts are simpler, they aren't very much so (I've got the plastic pre-painted Abel they were handing out and have the last version of the metal one - they're pretty close IMO).

[Jubilee]

When I was helping out at the Dark Sword booth on Sunday, I'd say about 1 in 5 people came up to the booth and looked at the painted miniatures, asked how much to buy the painted figures, and seemed shocked (SHOCKED!!!) to be told they were most of them at least $200, if not more..

Conversation often went like this:

Random Person: How much are these?
Me: Most of them are $7 a blister, except for some of the special editions, which are $10 or $15, and the dragons.
Random Person: And they come painted?
Me: Ah, no.. they come in metal, like this *pointing to the metal models on top of the shelf*
Random Person: How much for the painted ones?
Me: You'd have to work it out for a specific model for Jim, but all of them are going to start at least a couple hundred dollars.
Random Person: *giving me an "are you serious??" look* Oh.. *walks away*

So people seemed more interested in cheap painted figures than high quality painted figures OR painting figures themselves, in my unscientific small study on Sunday afternoon. :)

/ali

[supervike]

That is why I think there is a real market for the pre paints. Us mini painters have always been a niche hobby inside a much bigger hobby, and I think going forward we will become even more and more so.

[Ritual]

I understand what you are saying about people's interest in pre-painted minis and I have no problem with that. It's just that Rackham have a large existing customer base for Confrontation BECAUSE of their quality of sculpts and paintjobs and people are inspired by this. Now, Rackham changes direction of that game and aim for a completely new market, thus alienating a large part their existing fan base. THAT is my biggest problem with them. I'm sure they will be successful with their (new) game, but many of their existing customers will feel let down. As a painter (and not a gamer) I have no problem finding other interesting companies to fill my needs and I don't have any need for cheap (I'm talking about the material and not the actual price) plastic minis. The idea of painting over a pre-painted mini doesn't appeal to me, even though I know it is perfectly doable. So, my Rackham addiction is rapidly wearing off.

And, believe me when I say that PLENTY of Rackham fans are upset about this.

[Frustrated Father]

I do have to say that we were asked if they could buy the painted minis over and over. Had one come by and be completely asinine about it, going on and on about how he wanted to buy one of the painted minis, no, really, no, really ... okay, $600 for that mini that you are badgering me about for the last two days.

Needless to say he finally got the hint.

[Travis Syxx]

I want to touch on a couple of points made in the previous posts.

1. Anyone that is interested in any of the Rackham line can send me a PM and I will work something out with them. We too are dropping the Confrontation line and have nearly a full stock of each mini up to about two releases ago.

2. I myself send most of mini's out to get painted. I don't have enough time to paint on my own. I don't paint all that well. I feel embarassed to run a large game store and field non-painted mini's. I usually pay the painters with merchandise that I buy, which intern promotes that game.

3. Pre-paints are catching on a great deal because most americans are like me. They work 45-50 hours a week and don't have the time to sit down and do as good of a job as they would like. People like to be able to open the box and be able to play right away. People save the time it takes to paint and the money they need to spend on supplies. They lose the since of individuality. It also becomes easy to confuse someone stuff from yours unless you mark the base or something to tell the difference. The pre-paints have come along ways since the days of the first heroclick and ddm. Mongoose's pre-paints stuff as well as AT-43 looks better then the average person can do.

4. There is definitely a growing market for miniature painters. People do not want to pay a ton of money though. So my advise would be to knock off a couple of steps of work when your painting for someone else unless they want to pay a premium. People are happy as long as it looks as good or better then they could do. Regular people don't understand the time and the skill it takes to get the mini's to the state that everyone on this site can do. They only look at the original cost and how much more the paint job will be. Most people don't want to pay more then twice what they spent on the mini for the paint job.

5. Rackham has done a terrible diservice to the gaming community at large. They put out a fantasy line with some crappy rules because they had good sculpt so people pressured them to have a rule set. So they made first Ed which sucked. Second edition was a bit better but some races and combo were just disgusting. Third edition was pretty good but difficult to read due to the rulebook being translated by babelfish and then just thrown into a book. The had a bunch of problems after that with an unsuccessful attempt at single distribution and not really keeping anyone in the loop as to what is going on. They also give retailer the worst cost in the industry on AT-43. When I sell a model from the AT-43 line I make 5% less then any other mini line in my store. Given this much frustration and backstabbing it is very hard for me to proote their game given all of the good competition out there now. It's not like the early 90's when the only choices are Warzone and GW.

When I saw the first pieces from the Rackham line I got excited like I haven't been in a long time in the industry. Unfortunately with the language barriors and other ego problems we couldn't help them as much as they needed.

When I saw the Wyrd miniatures in the case my first walk through at Gen Con this year I got that same feeling. Wow these are some kick ass sculpts and awesome paint jobs. I want to play this game now. I couldn't help but buy the whole line because I was that impressed. I have started to show more and more people and they are all equally impressed. This weekend I intend to show the regulars and get feedback which I will post here.

If there is anything that I can do to help this project all you need to do is ask. All of the painters have been heavily complimented due to having CMON up at the point of sale to show people some of the finished stuff. The sculpts are equally awesome. So keep this thing rolling. If you publish it they will play.

Travis

[EricJ]

hey Travis, I love the insider perspective from a store owner, I admit I have never followed Rakham much, but I know what you mean, the first time I saw their wolven sculpts with nmm I was excited in a way I hadn't been before by minis (no one take that the wrong way!). I'm thrilled to hear that the wyrd line has gotten you so interested as well, hopefully we can pull it together and get something out here that you truly enjoy playing as well. The work we've put into it since coming back from gencon has gotten me even more excited as well, some great ideas are flowing. I'm sure once we have it together into a beta you're feedback will be invaluable as well. Thanks for your perspective on all this as a shop owner, I think you have one here on the forums that no one else has, it's appreciated!

-Eric

[DrEvilmonki]

Has anyone seen an example of one of the new confrontation plastics? If the quality is there what difference does it make?

Rackham are also doing metal minis. Looks like GW style. Plastic for troops, metal for characters. Sounds like people moaning for the sake of moaning.

[Xenon_Wulf]

Err... They'll be switching their whole Confrontation line to plastic - with only the very occasional metal model...

As for Brookhurst, they've been slashign prices on Rackham products ever since they've stopped being the main distributor and Rackham turned to ACD...

[Travis Syxx]

Here are some pictures of the plastic figures taken from Gencon.

www.tabletopgamingnews.com/?page_id=9375&album=3&gallery=15&nggpage=2 (http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/?page_id=9375&album=3&gallery=15&nggpage=2)

Moving forward more and more miniature companies will be going with only plastic. The molds are more expensive but the are cheaper to make per figure and the detail isn't lost as badly as it used to be with the new technologies.

They look very solid. I would never question the quality of their sculpts or their paint jobs. They have always been well above average.

Here's what some of the folks on another board are saying out the Brookhurst/Rackham situation:

www.tabletopgamingnews.com/?p=9456#comment-11523 (http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/?p=9456#comment-11523)


As well as some pictures of the Wyrd both mini's

www.tabletopgamingnews.com/?page_id=9375&album=3&gallery=18

Travis

edited to add additional links

[Stupidcow]

I think Rackham will continue to come out with some good models even after switching to plastic. The Abbey Prime is a very good example. Paintjob wise I still think the prepainted ones are sucky, with no eyes etc.

I still prefer good old metal minis over plastics. Painting a plastic model is like drinking wine out of a plastic cup.

[Malebolgia]

Sounds like people moaning for the sake of moaning.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/mathieut/genconRackham/wolfen2.jpg

I don't call this moaning for the sake of moaning...
This looks awful. Terrible paintjob (I don't care if it is good for prepaint standards...it just sucks) and those mold lines ruin it even more. The model also clearly has less detail than the metal version. Yuck.

[DrEvilmonki]

Metal figures have mold lines as well. If you are going to paint one yourself you would still have to clean it up. Also plastic would probably mean it was stronger than the current ones since Rackhams metal is so good awful weak.

As to the detail, yeah this one looks a bit basic but then some of current wolfen troops are a bit basic and the mounted knights look very detailed.

[supervike]

I really think there is room in the 'mini' world for both of us...the "pre-painted gamer", and the "I'll handle the painting chores meself" crowd.

It is nice to have choices.

[Ritual]

The detail is definitely "softer" on that plastic wolfen than on a metal one.

The point is, I don't care wether these minis are good to game with for people who aren't interested in painting their own armies. This is a different product that I'm not interested in! Pre-painted plastic minis don't appeal to me. Even unpainted plastic minis don't appeal much to me... I don't like handling plastic minis, I don't like cleaning plastic minis and I don't like the softer and lesser details of plastic minis.

Now, I am not really moaning... I'm just saying that I am no longer that interested in Rackham's output. There are plenty of other actors out there, and I can easily buy more minis than I will ever be able to paint. That's no problem! I'm just a little bit sad that the company who re-kindled my interest in painting miniatures no longer interest me.

[supervike]

I'm just a little bit sad that the company who re-kindled my interest in painting miniatures no longer interest me.

I completly understand this sentiment. Although I've admittedly never been a huge Rackham fan, it does seem to me like they are abandoning thier core.

They are turning the 'upscale collectible' to a 'cheap plastic toy'. There really is a difference...Otherwise I'd be buying loads of those cheap green army men to play with!

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/424325/2/istockphoto_424325_plastic_bazooka_man_w_path.jpg

[EricJ]

I agree with anders, basically they've changed products, and while they are similar, it has no interest to me now

but don't worry everyone! Wyrd won't go to exclusively prepainted plastics for another 2-3 years yet ;)

[matty1001]

Vikey, my mate once used those little plastic army men to play a game of 40K, he feilded 3000pt's worth of Imperial Guard and just blue tacked them to the GW base's.

Why? Because it only cost him £8 or something instead of about £300 lol

[Jubilee]

The "special edition" plastic prepaint Confrontation model for GenCon was UGLY! Why is it the Europeans get cool metal minis, and we get some cruddy plastic piece of junk?????

The wolfen studio paint jobs do look pretty cool, but I don't have high hopes for the production copies.

[gi6ers]

It's a reflection of the changing marketplace, just vote with your wallet. Plenty of other cool stuff with less fiddly filigree to paint.

If gamers want to field a pre-painted army then the vendors are following a demand. I can't see metal dissapearing in the long term but there is always talk of our hobby dying, to be honest most of the stuff we paint (excluding GW) are produced by tiny little cottage industries who are catering to a small devoted customer base.

I think the concern has to be over bringing new blood into 'THE HOBBY', if the pre-paints gets more people into gaming and eventually painting then it has to be a good thing doesn't it? Do you see younger people buying AT-43 and all the other current lines out there? I'd imagine some of us got into this hobby via board games and badly painted D&D minis, is this really that different?

[Travis Syxx]

The other thing about Rackham's metal mini's is the fact that they are the only ones out there that are really still using lead. When we had a huge crowd of people playing one of the reasons a couple of people gave me for not playing is due to them still using lead. I'm not sure how different a pewter mold is from a lead mold but it may have something to do with them switching to plastic. Aside from overall cost.

Travis

[goblyn13]

The other thing about Rackham's metal mini's is the fact that they are the only ones out there that are really still using lead. When we had a huge crowd of people playing one of the reasons a couple of people gave me for not playing is due to them still using lead. I'm not sure how different a pewter mold is from a lead mold but it may have something to do with them switching to plastic. Aside from overall cost.

Travis

For Rackham to still be using Lead means that in most countries in Europe and here in the States, it means that they can't sell to children and they have to carry a toxic warning on their packaging. As for the difference between pewter and lead, Pewter doesn't flow into the tiny details as well as lead does. A lead mold can pick up all the little nitpicky details because lead flows better (from my understanding).

As for cost I suspect Rackham is going plastic in order to help expand their lines, and to help them to alleviate the rising cost of metal in general.

[matty1001]

Im sure Rackham probably know's what it's doing. But then they're French and will probably just be going banana's about the whole thing :P

[Travis Syxx]

If you look at the packaging for a rackham mini on the top of the package on the side opposite the letters Confrontation there is a warning written there. It is white lettering on a blue background so it's not easy to read but it's there.

[EricJ]

lead? you know, Anders has painted a bunch of those...it would explain a few things...

[Hinton]

lead? you know, Anders has painted a bunch of those...it would explain a few things...

So, between the lead in the minis and the brush licking, poor Ritual is just doomed. Dooooomed!!

;)

[Ritual]

I don't lick my minis! :)

[green stuff]

But then they're French and will probably just be going banana's about the whole thing :P
:wtf:
:damnit:
:ban:
:iam:
:crap:
:aetsch:
:lol:

@Nathan : we need more smileys. Any chance of getting an english flag, a french flag, and a banana :P?

[Frustrated Father]

I could probably manage that.

:D

[Angel_of_Menoth]

November is when they are going fully pre-painted. Looks like it's time to buy that Mercenary Assassin that I didn't buy when I was playing Dogs of War. Unfortunately, it looks like we're going to see more of this in the future.

Then again, with all of the bitching about the Gen Con and Games Day painting contests, maybe this is the best solution.

[supervike]

I don't lick my minis! :)


If I could lick my mini, I'd never get out of bed.....


Thank you, I'll be here all week!! Please tip your waitresses and waiters!

[matty1001]

@Cedric: LMAO Hahahah!